Canada's Capital Cachers / Cacheurs de la capitale du Canada

Tech Talk => Paperless and Mobile Caching => Topic started by: portera on August 19, 2010, 20:12:22

Title: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on August 19, 2010, 20:12:22
I had a great day planned here in PEI that Garmin and their crapolla software pretty well frigged up.

I had loaded my GPX files onto my Colorado, including the waypoint files (big mistake) While still at the cottage, I tried to create a waypoint, and it told me that my waypoint memory was full. I connected and deleted the waypoint GPX files, and happily got dropped of at the start of my ride by my wife, and she continued on to the end of my ride. When I booted my GPS, it seemed to get stuck, which is not uncommon, so I re-booted, and realized that I had no geocaches on my GPS. I have had this happen before, and the only cure has been to erase ALL gpx files from the GPX directory (except the archives) and re-load them. This - of course - is impossible when your laptop is 25 km away, and you are on a bike.

I did manage to get some coords by using my Blackberry, but my day was not what I had expected as this took a LOT longer.

Has anyone else seen this "No Geocaches found" behaviour on the paperless Garmin units? This, to me, is a BIG problem! They need to give a way to reset this issue without needing a computer.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ottawabirdbrain on August 19, 2010, 20:55:07
I always restart the oregon after changing the GPX files.  I shouldn't have to, but too often stuff seems to happen.  If I forget to do this test at home, then for sure bad things will happen.

I write enough XML parsing software to know that there is no excuse for this.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: narcissa on August 19, 2010, 23:32:53
Taoiseach and I get similar issues, especially with his Oregon (though it's happened with my Dakota and Oregon as well). After getting burned, we now check before leaving to make sure the geocaches show up.

We always delete all previous GPX files before loading new ones, and that seems to prevent it, but we still check.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: TigrePlus on August 20, 2010, 07:01:32
I had this issues with my Colorado and Oregon. I carry with me a spare memory card preloaded and tested. I refresh my gpx files almost every day.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: kirok on August 20, 2010, 07:06:23
So far, I have not encountered this particular bug on the 62 series. Crossing fingers...
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on August 20, 2010, 07:14:58
I had this issues with my Colorado and Oregon. I carry with me a spare memory card preloaded and tested. I refresh my gpx files almost every day.

Where do you put the GPX files on an SD card? I was under the impression that the GPX files only went in the main memory.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Starkiller on August 20, 2010, 08:32:17
This happened to me some time ago. I soon realized it wasn't a fluke. It's very frustrating!!

I agree with others- I delete all GPX files, then upload the new one. I restart the unit right away to make sure it works. When I'm going away on trips, sometimes I'll make backup copies of the GPX files, or have alternate PQ's ready to "turn on".

I think this discussion is going towards micro-sd cards. Apparently when the unit fails in this manner, you can just re-insert the card and it's good to go??
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: dcmg on August 20, 2010, 09:02:08
Unfortunately it is a well known bug on the Oregons and similar GPSrs. The device on bootup parses what it thinks are any "new" GPX files and stores them into some internal memory/database. There is some probability it seems that on parsing any cache it can go off into la-la land that takes a battery pull to recover from. Unfortunately, the gpx file it was reading is no longer "new" when you next boot so that any caches in the file after the point it got stuck at are not loaded into the device.

Simply touching the file will make it appear "new" again. You don't have to redownload it. You can even just rename the file. But yes it takes a computer to do this. For me, using the GarminExport macro each week and sending 2000 caches in one file to the unit means that I have to rename the file almost every time. But it always succeeds the second time.

Pray that the 62/78 do not hav this bug.

--dcmg
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: SigsPig on August 20, 2010, 13:09:32
As I mentioned to Ron on FB, I've been having a problem with disappearing maps. Haven't had waypoints disappear but the maps (topo & dedale trail systems) vanishing in the middle of the woods has been 'frustrating'  >:(
Forgot to mention; using the 60cx
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: missbug on August 20, 2010, 14:29:08
hmm.. i have been using my oregon 550 since february and have never had this problem.

sorry, ron!   :-\  :-\
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: kirok on August 20, 2010, 16:23:45
Simply touching the file will make it appear "new" again. You don't have to redownload it. You can even just rename the file. But yes it takes a computer to do this. For me, using the GarminExport macro each week and sending 2000 caches in one file to the unit means that I have to rename the file almost every time. But it always succeeds the second time.

Pray that the 62/78 do not hav this bug.

With my 62, I use the GarminExport macro to the same file name every time.  No issues with any hangs on boot-up, and any new caches that were placed in the file are always visible.  So far, the only hangs I have experienced are upon arriving at my auto-routed destination.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ottawabirdbrain on August 20, 2010, 17:02:40
hmm.. i have been using my oregon 550 since february and have never had this problem.

sorry, ron!   :-\  :-\

DCMG's message explains why I didn't have any of the caches from the file you sent me last weekend.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ottawabirdbrain on August 20, 2010, 17:04:24
Unfortunately, the gpx file it was reading is no longer "new" when you next boot so that any caches in the file after the point it got stuck at are not loaded into the device.

I did not realize this.  Thank you for the info.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: dcmg on August 20, 2010, 20:50:26
It is actually quite noticable from the garminexport macro after it hangs as you will only see a circle of caches around your home location that is not the normal diameter. The number of caches that do get output is random.

Missbug, if you are only downloading gpx files from gc.com then you probably won't have come across it yet.

As long as you know about it it is easy to avoid in the field as you get used to restarting your gpsr immediately after downloading the gpx file. If it needs a battery pull, then you go back in and rename the file and restart again.

--dcmg
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on August 20, 2010, 20:52:42
As long as you know about it it is easy to avoid in the field as you get used to restarting your gpsr immediately after downloading the gpx file. If it needs a battery pull, then you go back in and rename the file and restart again.

While this may be true, we should not have to go through this. I suggest we all deluge Garmin with requests/insistences that they fix this problem.

I plan to do so when I get home.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: model12 on August 20, 2010, 22:30:25
I wouldn't stand such poor performance from a state-of-the-art POC...no matter how brightly it shines in other areas.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: 3-Bearss on August 22, 2010, 08:24:52
I have had the Oregon 300 for some time now ... Yes it can hang up on occassion.
I keep the GPX files on the 4 GB microSD card. By creating folders on the card that match those on the Oregon 300 internal memory ie. a "Garmin" and "Wherigo" folder with sub folders, you then send your GPX files to the card either through the unit or a card carrier.
I also "reset" or delete all waypoints on the Oregon 300 so I don't get Memory full.
Using this method, if the Oregon gets stuck or hangs up, remove the microSD card (safe with your GPX file) start the oregon, reset all waypoints, put card back in unit and restart.
This has restored my GPX file each time without fail.
I also keep all maps loaded on the microSD card.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on August 22, 2010, 09:07:50
I have had the Oregon 300 for some time now ... Yes it can hang up on occassion.
I keep the GPX files on the 4 GB microSD card. By creating folders on the card that match those on the Oregon 300 internal memory ie. a "Garmin" and "Wherigo" folder with sub folders, you then send your GPX files to the card either through the unit or a card carrier.
I also "reset" or delete all waypoints on the Oregon 300 so I don't get Memory full.
Using this method, if the Oregon gets stuck or hangs up, remove the microSD card (safe with your GPX file) start the oregon, reset all waypoints, put card back in unit and restart.
This has restored my GPX file each time without fail.
I also keep all maps loaded on the microSD card.

This is excellent advice! Thank you VERY much! I have always used my SD card for my maps, but was unaware I could put the GPX files on there too.

Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Starkiller on August 23, 2010, 14:08:19
I think this discussion is going towards micro-sd cards. Apparently when the unit fails in this manner, you can just re-insert the card and it's good to go??

I was giving the same advice, although much more ambiguous.

To me, resolving this issue isn't quite worth purchasing the microsd card. The unit holds everything I need and more in the 1 gb internal memory!
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on August 23, 2010, 17:54:58
To me, resolving this issue isn't quite worth purchasing the microsd card.

I think I paid about $10 for mine. I'd have paid $10 to have caches on my GPS the other day...
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Pokaroo on August 26, 2010, 07:58:07
You might consider a backup as POI's. The unit can carry thousands of these with minimal memory being required. This is easily done using GSAK and macro GPX_by_Cache_Type.GSX. Granted it is not paperless but most of the information about a cache is there like cache description, Hints and logs. This file can also be filtered by Cache Type which can be handy. Keep it in internal memory and if the external card falters just take it out and your still ready to go. I think I have 10,000 POI's. A POI's you could put the caches for a whole province on it especiall PEI.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Starkiller on August 31, 2010, 13:42:45
This might be opening another can of worms... but how do you change the zoom level that added POIs display at? Everything I add doesn't display until the 80m scale zoom level on my Oregon...
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: missbug on September 07, 2010, 11:51:38
their new firmware update killed my 550.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: G_Fours on September 07, 2010, 17:13:13
their new firmware update killed my 550.

Were you able to install the old version?
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: kirok on September 07, 2010, 22:16:42
New firmware 2.50 for the 62 is available today as well.  I find the unit much more responsive now, and a few new features were added.  

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4995
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: missbug on September 08, 2010, 09:27:59
no, recovery and restoration did not work. it got to 82% validation and the cycles quit. the unit would not boot. they will send me a new one!
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Pokaroo on September 08, 2010, 10:00:21
Interesting. I am running the beta version of 3.74 and it is working just great. The beta version seems to include all the enhancements as the new version 3.8 so I guess I will hold off trying 3.8. Just in case :)

Link for the 3.74 Beta is http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4743 if you want to try it.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: missbug on September 08, 2010, 10:47:01
i did try it and it still wouldnt boot. unit is gone. outta my hands now!
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: graciious on September 08, 2010, 11:32:59
New firmware 2.50 for the 62 is available today as well.  I find the unit much more responsive now, so and a few new features were added. 

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4995

I have bad luck when it comes to upgrading stuff.. I am going to give Kirok a few days with the new firmware before I try it.   

As a side note my 62 had 7 GPX files on it which was causing a bit of a problem for my GPS the other night. (It kept crashing during Missbugs 2000th Cache Event). As soon as I followed Missbugs advice and loaded my GPX file myself (and removed all the old GPX files) I had no problems with the unit.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Pokaroo on September 08, 2010, 11:54:42
outta my hands now!
Ahhh freedom at last [:)]
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ocm_ott on September 17, 2010, 14:07:20
The Colorado does this to me almost every time I put a GPX on it. I find keeping the number of caches below 900 or so helps, though it doesn't seem to stop the Colorado from hanging every time I put a new GPX on it. It doesn't seem to be the cache software itself (happened with GSAK, happens with my own OCM for Linux). My loading process these days is send caches to the GPS, start up and wait for it to hang, restart it, check to see if caches actually show up, and repeat if necessary.

This is one of those things that are making me consider a non-Garmin GPS as my next one....
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on September 17, 2010, 14:10:18
Yes. Every time I load a new GPX file onto the device, it gets stuck at the "Loading Maps" screen. I can press buttons, and it makes sounds, but I can;t see anything but the loading maps screen. I power down, and then power up, and things seem to work fine (usually)
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: kirok on September 17, 2010, 14:30:15
I have not experienced this with the 62.  It may be due to the forced power cycle it does on its own when you disconnect the USB cable.  On my old 60, there was a setting for "External power loss" to leave the GPS on or off when that happens.  On the 62, this option seems to be missing, so no matter what I do, when I disconnect the cable from the unit, it powers off.  After power on, everything works fine as usual.  

I do find the latest firmware release to be slower than the previous, making an already slow unit that much more painful to use.  I hope that the issues with car units will not slow Garmin's progress down in fixing all the bugs in the 62, or I'll end up selling it off due to impatience.  
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ocm_ott on September 17, 2010, 14:31:44
The Colorado does the power cycle too, doesn't help. Maybe Garmin actually fixed something (hardware wise) in the 62 and Oregon 550 since they seem immune to this.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Pokaroo on September 18, 2010, 08:36:27
This might be opening another can of worms... but how do you change the zoom level that added POIs display at? Everything I add doesn't display until the 80m scale zoom level on my Oregon...

Easy Peasy... Setup...Map...Advanced Map Setup Text Size, Zoom Level...Zoom Levels Points, Streets, etc....User Waypoints...

Currently you have it set to "Auto" so set it to something higher like 5km...

Enjoy
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ottawabirdbrain on September 19, 2010, 17:20:34
I have had the Oregon 300 for some time now ... Yes it can hang up on occassion.
I keep the GPX files on the 4 GB microSD card. By creating folders on the card that match those on the Oregon 300 internal memory ie. a "Garmin" and "Wherigo" folder with sub folders, you then send your GPX files to the card either through the unit or a card carrier.
I also "reset" or delete all waypoints on the Oregon 300 so I don't get Memory full.
Using this method, if the Oregon gets stuck or hangs up, remove the microSD card (safe with your GPX file) start the oregon, reset all waypoints, put card back in unit and restart.
This has restored my GPX file each time without fail.
I also keep all maps loaded on the microSD card.

I used this today.  Thank you for the advice.  It is not something I would ever have found on my own.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on September 19, 2010, 19:35:34
My rule is that if anyone asks me what I am doing, I tell them. I am a terrible liar, and my trying would only make things go badly.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Starkiller on September 23, 2010, 14:02:04
This works very well, and solves some other very minor issues I had as well. This makes it much more tempting to load my own custom POIs!!!

This might be opening another can of worms... but how do you change the zoom level that added POIs display at? Everything I add doesn't display until the 80m scale zoom level on my Oregon...

Easy Peasy... Setup...Map...Advanced Map Setup Text Size, Zoom Level...Zoom Levels Points, Streets, etc....User Waypoints...

Currently you have it set to "Auto" so set it to something higher like 5km...

Enjoy
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: Starkiller on November 13, 2010, 22:40:41
This seemed like an appropriate thread to post in...

So I updated my Oregon 300 to the latest software level yesterday to try out the new chirp caches... It rebooted a few times, was working fine when I tested it at home, but when I tried today (GAG15), my GPS wasn't turning on at all! No loading screen or anything. First thing I did was change the batteries... Then when I got home tried connecting to the computer... but no signs of life at all.

The basic recovery options on the wiki won't work either since they need to be able to get a connection from the computer to the unit.

I bought my Oregon 300 in August 09. It died in June 2010 towards the end of SF6. The replacement I received from Raytech often had odd issues getting into PC mode, but I could get it to work with some fiddling. This has lasted me about 4.5 months since I received it before dying, but since it's more than a year since I  bought my first oregon, I wonder what the raytech billing options will be like when I will probably have to call them up...

Any recommendations anyone? (other than staying away from big events that seem to kill my GPS?)
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: graciious on November 14, 2010, 02:26:51
I thought the reset was the option of pressing the top left corner of the screen and turning it on... I didn't think you had to connect it to the PC for that to happen.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: inkyfiller on November 14, 2010, 18:08:32
My problems with my 440T siince "Chirp" , are having to reboot the GPSr when I get near to GZ from Recalc on road. Even if I change to a recalc off route it seems to "hang" A quick ( and it is an "off" and "on" ) cures the problem. Quite frustrating altho the problem occurred on an earlier "upgrade". 2 steps forward - 1 step back (again). Inky
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: missbug on November 15, 2010, 09:24:15
^ also be sure that your unit is set to

Setup>Routing>Lock on Road>No

after the chirp upgrade on my 550, it reset the default to Yes, apparently!
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: junglehair on November 15, 2010, 23:11:23
^ also be sure that your unit is set to

Setup>Routing>Lock on Road>No

after the chirp upgrade on my 550, it reset the default to Yes, apparently!

I upgraded the firmware on my Oregon 550 just before the GAG event.  I just checked it and Lock on Road was still set to No for me.

Tromelin and I had an issue about a week ago when I tried to beam a geocache to him and our units both froze.  After popping the batteries out, we both lost all the waypoints.  Well, not quite all - just all the geocaches.  We did still have a few parking coordinates and the waypoints that we had created.  Not very useful when you've just driven an hour away from home to start caching for the day and you have no caches loaded.  I have the 550 and Tromelin has the 450 and we've both had this issue when loading caches.  We always turn the units on and test them before leaving home.  This was the first time I lost the waypoints in the field though.  Really annoying.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: portera on November 16, 2010, 06:59:26
...After popping the batteries out, we both lost all the waypoints.  Well, not quite all - just all the geocaches.  We did still have a few parking coordinates and the waypoints that we had created.  Not very useful when you've just driven an hour away from home to start caching for the day and you have no caches loaded.  I have the 550 and Tromelin has the 450 and we've both had this issue when loading caches.  We always turn the units on and test them before leaving home.  This was the first time I lost the waypoints in the field though.  Really annoying.

I have had this happen on my Colorado 400c as well. This is the main reason that I have purchased GSAK, and use it to load all the local caches as POI's. At least if this happens, I still have the caches on my system, though they're not quite as convenient.

The last time I spoke to Garmin, I asked them to add a menu choice to force a re-load of the GPX files, as they don't seem to be able to figure out the root cause of this problem. The agent thought it was a good idea. I doubt it will ever happen.

Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: TigrePlus on November 16, 2010, 07:14:03
The same thing happened to me two weeks ago. Thank to the Oregon I carried with me. I’s only hours later that was able to restart the unit. I lost all my waypoints and caches. The Oregon 550 still froze randomly. This is very frustrating in the field.
Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: cavecats on November 16, 2010, 08:16:22
I upgraded the firmware on my Oregon 550 just before the GAG event.  I just checked it and Lock on Road was still set to No for me.

Tromelin and I had an issue about a week ago when I tried to beam a geocache to him and our units both froze.  After popping the batteries out, we both lost all the waypoints.  Well, not quite all - just all the geocaches.  We did still have a few parking coordinates and the waypoints that we had created.  Not very useful when you've just driven an hour away from home to start caching for the day and you have no caches loaded.  I have the 550 and Tromelin has the 450 and we've both had this issue when loading caches.  We always turn the units on and test them before leaving home.  This was the first time I lost the waypoints in the field though.  Really annoying.

Interesting, I upgraded my Oregon 300 just before the event as well so that I would be CHIRP enable.  On Saturday, my unit locked up while trying to send a waypoint to tcort.  On reboot, my GAG15 caches were still there but my default Ottawa caches were gone except for the additional parking and trail waypoints.  Both my GPX files were stored on the card, not the unit.

Title: Re: Freakin' Garmin software!
Post by: ocm_ott on November 16, 2010, 16:19:00

I have had this happen on my Colorado 400c as well. This is the main reason that I have purchased GSAK, and use it to load all the local caches as POI's. At least if this happens, I still have the caches on my system, though they're not quite as convenient.


That's a really smart idea... We never use POIs with the Colorado because it seemed to defeat the point of paperless caching, but as a backup it's a really good idea.

The Delorme so far seems very stable in comparison, it never has problems loading GPXs. I still check that the waypoints show up on the machine but I've never had to go back and resend a GPX or 'touch' the file on the machine. However it once displayed a cache name as garbage characters in the list of caches although selecting the cache showed the correct name. It has it's own warts which I'm finding and the screen is tiny, but so far they're minor annoyances and not major headaches like this GPX thing on the Colorado/Oregon.

I've only had one firmware update though, so I can't really tell yet if Delorme ships out firmware that ends up bricking the unit.