Author Topic: karl karlson  (Read 8399 times)

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cron

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2010, 07:24:59 »
I'm aware of the hides (he clearly described them in his first caches) and the fact he has no logged finds (because we can't know if he ever found one). But you're right, I can ignore caches even if they're not on my ignore list and that's probably why I have a different opinion.

I make no assumptions and I'm not judging someone on mere intent, but I see childish behaviour on both sides here.

Anybody invited him to the monthly instead of bullying him on the forum (he may not even be aware there's a forum and an entire thread about him)?

Taoiseach

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2010, 10:29:01 »
Violent?

Sorry, very poor choice of words on my part.  Call them childish and inappropriate.

Your usage of 'violent' is ok.  Calling somebody's usage of a Needs Archived log to draw a reviewer's attention to a cache is over the top.

narcissa

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2010, 14:51:30 »
Violent?

Sorry, very poor choice of words on my part.  Call them childish and inappropriate.

No no, I was questioning cron's use of the word "violent" to describe using a "Needs Archived" log. It's just ridiculous the way some cache owners insist on vilifying a perfectly valid log action that simply brings a reviewer's attention to a problem cache.

I haven't received any email from this sock puppet so far and I haven't seen any examples, so I wouldn't be able to comment on the relative violence of it. :)

narcissa

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2010, 14:55:29 »
Anybody invited him to the monthly instead of bullying him on the forum (he may not even be aware there's a forum and an entire thread about him)?

It's almost certainly a sock puppet for someone who is perfectly well aware of the various events held in this area.

model12

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 15:02:30 »
As with any situation like this, they will eventually get outed, then face the wrath of their peers. 'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...'

Steve

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bluelamb03

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2010, 15:22:22 »
Just to add to the idle speculation....

It doesn't seem to me to be an experienced cacher listing caches through a sock puppet account. The Karlson caches I've found so far have had all the hallmarks of a n00b cache hider: poor locations, poor cache descriptions/ratings and bad hides!

I think this may very well be a newcomer who's experimenting with cache hides.

Now, why they haven't logged any finds is a different question. I have no theory there....

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cron

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2010, 15:49:15 »
Violent?

Sorry, very poor choice of words on my part.  Call them childish and inappropriate.

No no, I was questioning cron's use of the word "violent" to describe using a "Needs Archived" log. It's just ridiculous the way some cache owners insist on vilifying a perfectly valid log action that simply brings a reviewer's attention to a problem cache.

I haven't received any email from this sock puppet so far and I haven't seen any examples, so I wouldn't be able to comment on the relative violence of it. :)

Maybe he died of a stroke when he got your note? See, it was violent.  :o

There are many ways to bring back a newbie on track. You can write him an email (at least try it and not let what you heard get in the way), you can post a note on the cache page, you can write an email to a reviewer (privately), you can write to Groundspeak (privately) or you can go public with the NA log (in order of niceness, the first one being the nicest).

You tagged him (maybe her?) has a sock puppet account. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Because of that, you decided to post a NA log, which I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done for any other newbie (or experienced cacher).

I guess it's a matter of perception.

The_BOD

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2010, 15:59:04 »
I don't want to bash or be hard.  The point of my topic was to know if anybody knew him and get some help on what to do about my situation.  And I have received the help and pointers I needed to know.  This is not what I wanted the thread to grow up as.

My logs did exactly what Cron says.  I told him that the container he used was getting better but I suggested that, when he does changes of that nature he should update the cache page.  I also did say that it would be wise to also update the coordinates when he decides to change the location of his hide.

I got a personnal message saying .... and I quote 1 word "YAWN" and woops all my logs got deleted.  Now groudspeek is telling to be patient and his contacting the CO... but with attitude like this from the CO I hope I don't loose faith in groudspeak and they will make it right.  Like I said, at this point it's a question of what is right to do and what is not.  He has no right to start deleting logs like this and I don't think Groundspeek should allow him to do it.

I am crossing my fingers and waiting for the verdict :)   If other want to try and educate him... i think it's great, but I think his mind is pretty much made up. 

kirok

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2010, 16:35:37 »
.... and I quote 1 word "YAWN" and woops all my logs got deleted. 

On a related, but semi-off topic note.  Did you get a notification from geocaching.com that your log got deleted?  Just curious to know how one finds out without checking every cache page, or noticing their count went down by one and then trying to figure out which log went missing.

narcissa

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2010, 16:58:06 »
There are many ways to bring back a newbie on track. You can write him an email (at least try it and not let what you heard get in the way), you can post a note on the cache page, you can write an email to a reviewer (privately), you can write to Groundspeak (privately) or you can go public with the NA log (in order of niceness, the first one being the nicest).

You tagged him (maybe her?) has a sock puppet account. Maybe it is, maybe it's not. Because of that, you decided to post a NA log, which I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have done for any other newbie (or experienced cacher).

I posted a Needs Archived note because the cache had just been published and it was clearly problematic.

Contacting other geocachers privately isn't a great idea when it comes to cache issues. It's best to simply turn the matter over to the people who have the authority to deal with the problem, rather than arguing about it in private. Private messages can quickly go off the rails, especially with geocachers like this one who seem determined to cause trouble. Private messages don't alert other geocachers that there's a problem with the cache.

Contacting the reviewer privately comes with its own problems. In Ontario, we have several reviewers who take turns dealing with cache issues. There needs to be a record of activity on the cache that any reviewer can follow.

It is illogical and incorrect to attach personal meaning to a site function that serves a very specific purpose. "Needs Archived" isn't "nice" or "not nice." It's a utility that brings a reviewer's attention to a problem cache and flags the cache for other geocachers. That's what it's there for.

Hysterical overreactions to "Needs Archived" logs make other geocachers less likely to use this valuable tool. Stop.

The_BOD

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2010, 17:18:55 »
.... and I quote 1 word "YAWN" and woops all my logs got deleted. 

On a related, but semi-off topic note.  Did you get a notification from geocaching.com that your log got deleted?  Just curious to know how one finds out without checking every cache page, or noticing their count went down by one and then trying to figure out which log went missing.

Yes you do get a notification from Groundspeek when a log of yours gets deleted.  Go back to page 1 of this topic near the bottom of the screen you'll see what I mean. If you want to see the results just tell me if you have found one of my caches and i'll delete your log.  Then post it back....    I reposted about 4-5 times on every cache pages that the logs got deleted but he kept deleting them as soon as he saw them or got notification of them.   I stopped after that and contacted groundspeak. This kind of hints make me think teenage behavior.  I hardly see a seasoned geocacher hidding behind  a sock puppet account deleting my logs out of spite when I really didn't say anything negative, bad, or made any personnal attacks to him.  I see a kid in his bubble getting wrapped up because I stood up to him.  That is also why I hope Groundspeak will take a favorable position.   And yes my found caches where at 1027 and they are now 1023....

cron

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2010, 18:20:05 »
Hysterical overreactions to "Needs Archived" logs make other geocachers less likely to use this valuable tool. Stop.

To quote someone else:

Quote
YAWN

I guess everything has been said.

kirok

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2010, 21:15:52 »
If you want to see the results just tell me if you have found one of my caches and i'll delete your log.  Then post it back....   

Not needed, I trust your explanation.  Thanks!  ;D


bluelamb03

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2010, 21:53:16 »
I trust The Bod got the answers to his question about appealing the log deletions?
And everyone has had their say about Karlson's antics and what to do about them?
Then I don't see the need for this topic to continue unless there's a significant development in the situation. For example if the deleted finds are restored, or not. This is gradually becoming a repetitious and annoying argument about how to educate a n00b.

Perhaps cron and narcissa can carry on through personal emails?

Blue -
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The_BOD

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Re: karl karlson
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2010, 22:00:37 »
thank you Bluelamb... I almost feel sorry to have opened up a topic only to have it hijacked.  Can a moderator please close this thread.  I have gotten my answers.

I found the button .... I'll re-open to post final decision.... 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 22:24:42 by The_BOD »