Author Topic: MAP 62 and feedback so far  (Read 6012 times)

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hidnseek

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MAP 62 and feedback so far
« on: August 12, 2010, 13:31:28 »
Kirok is a early adaptor of this unit and was sharing feedback.  I will let him post anew again. so we can follow with our interest  ;D  I believe he is planning to bring the unit to the workshop event TONIGHT 7pm DOVERCOURT rec center August 12th.


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kirok

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2010, 16:41:34 »
Piecing together a bunch of different Google cached pages, I believe I've captured everything from the old thread up to August 2nd.  I've attached it as a PDF file to this post.   It's not pretty by any means, but it gets the message across.

The piece that is missing is the results of my testing this past weekend.  I've been doing a lot of testing of the auto-routing features, and so far it's working as expected.  There were a couple of times where it wanted me to make a bizarre turn that my 60CSx did not, despite both units having identical mapsets installed.  After reviewing the settings on both to ensure I was not avoiding any road types on what vs. the other, I found a couple of settings that were different.  After the settings update, they almost matched exactly turn by turn. 
Sadly, one thing did happen that I was not prepared for.  As I approached my auto-routed destination, I purposely drove passed my destination to see how fast it would react to my mistake.  After a few blocks of nothing, I pulled over to examine the unit, and found that it had "hung".  I could not power it off or use any buttons, so I had to pop the batteries out.   This did NOT happen with any other destination I tried for the rest of the day, so I thought it was just a glitch.  The next day, I purposefully drove the identical route to the same cache (La médiatrice by speleodude) and it did the exact same thing in the same spot.   I may simply be a glitch in the mapset data, but my 60CSx dwas happy with the route.  Other than that, I find the unit quicker to react to turns that my 60, but not by much.  The higher rez. screen is harder to read in the car, but a nice feature of allowing for font size changes allows for easier reading of the turn-by-turn text messages.

Good news and bad news regarding proximity circles.    Yes, they are there, but no, they are not very useful for geocaching (yet).  I CAN set them (and I now know how to change the units to meters, km, feet, miles, etc...), but if you expect to be able to set 2 or three and drop a waypoint at the intersection, forget it.  You can do this, but it would appear that the formula that calculates the proximity circles is not very accurate and draws them slightly different every time you look at the map screen.  I tried a few, dropped a WP at the intersection, then left the map screen.  Came back later, and my WP (which was still at the same Lat & Long) was still there, but the intersection had moved to another point on the map.  Grrr.  Also, the proximity circles are only visible when you are at 20 meters of zoom level or more.  Zoom in lower (12, 8,5) and they vanish off the screen. 

If I think of anything else I missed, I'll keep posting.  I've still got a few days left to play with it before I have to return it, but I suspect that I'll end up keeping it since they are likely to fix all this stuff in the future.

Oh yes, one more thing.  There is a rumour floating around the web that Garmin is working on adding the WhereIGo feature to these units.  Now THAT would be a plus.

hidnseek

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2010, 17:01:44 »
I had actually cut and paste your comments (kirok's) when someone asked me about it so have all your recent ones  ;D  again this is ugly and recent is at the top old at the bottom.


A quick thought that another poster in a forum suspects as well, that the unit's map priorities are different than in the 60. I have both Topo and City Navigator enabled, but I (we) suspect that the unit is giving the Topo map the priority when calculating routes, where as in the 60, CN gets priority. I'm going out again today, so I'm going to turn off Topo and see if the navigation improves.

*****

Yesterday was my first "full" day of caching with the 62. I picked a few long-solved puzzle caches in a somewhat unfamiliar (to me) area and gave the auto-routing a test drive. Well, despite having the identical mapsets installed as on my 60, the 62 was routing me in some pretty weird directions, but it did eventually get me to where I was needing to go. I chose to ignore some of it's turn suggestions, partly because I knew they were stupid, and partly because I wanted to test its correction capabilities. It is much faster to correct you on your turn mistakes than the 60, and much faster to react to upcoming turns, but... the one time that I overshot my destination and assumed it would ask me to do a u-turn, I heard nothing. I drove a few extra blocks before pulling over to examine the unit, and it had crashed. Hung is more appropriate, as I could not even power the unit off, I had to remove the batteries. The first sign that the software in here is not up to par yet. Hopefully in later releases this will get better.

I attempted a cache with the Sight N Go feature, which worked fine (but I didn't find the cache). The compass in the 62 is much more accurate than in my 60, and because it is a 3 axis compass, I don't ever get that "keep the unit level" annoyance like I do with the 60. It just works.

Some good news and some bad news regarding proximity circles. Garmin answered my bug report on the unit's issue and provided me with instructions on the (undocumented) but easy method to change the units for proximity alarms. I can now set them to meters or kilometers, but I must preset that in advance before I go into a waypoint to set the alarm, I cannot do it from the creation screen. Not a big deal, as the 60 only ever had kilometers anyway, so now at least I can switch.

The bad news is that the circles that are drawn on the map are not accurate enough for puzzle cache use. What I mean by that, is if I look at 2 (or 3, 4, ...) overlapping proximity circles on the map screen and drop a waypoint at an intersection, it's likely not anywhere near as good as on my 60. I've done this, then gone back into the map screen later, only to see the intersection be displayed over 50 meters away. I tested to see if it was the waypoint that moved, but it had the same coordinates as before, so it was the map that was displaying the intersection in different places each time. I redid the test, creating the intersection to occur in the middle of a small lake. I dropped a waypoint there, and then tested. Every time I returned to the map screen, the circle intersection moved around, in some cases even shown as being on shore of the lake. Sigh. More testing will be needed to see if this is a problem with the map's representation of the circles, or an accuracy issue with the proximity calculation formula.

I find that in order to be able to read he screen without much difficulty in broad daylight, I need to have the backlight turned on at least on half brightness or more, and in "Stays on" mode. While many reports say that the screen is brighter than the Oregon series (which it is), it's nowhere near as bright or easy to see as the 60 (see this image for a comparison). I blame this on the higher resolution screen and all the fancy graphics. I'll have to play around to see if I can find a more suitable colour scheme that allows for less backlight, as the backlight on this thing is a battery killer. After only a days use, my batteries are already dead, and these are 2500 ma PowerMax batteries I'm using. On the plus side, keeping it powered in the car is as simple and plugging it into the USB adapter I already have in the car for my iPhone. No more proprietary power cable required.

I'm using the unit in a neoprene case designed for the 60, and it's working well for the most part. It's a little snug, but it will work fine until this case dies and hopefully by then they will have one available made specifically for this unit.

I'm getting used to the new interface, despite the additional steps required to get at everything, so it's slowly growing on me, but not enough. I've still got at least a week before I can return this for a refund (minus S&H), so I'm still leaning towards doing that. However, if Garmn is quick to release firmware fixes to reported bugs, and can confirm that they are working on WhereIGo functionality for the unit, I may consider keeping it.
*******
QUOTE
How many geocaches does it hold?


So far, I have not hit the limit of geocaches, waypoints or POIs it can hold. The manual is useless on the subject, but the forums and wikis seem to indicate that, like the Oregon and other models of the series, the limit is on filesize and number of GPX files, not on what is inside them. I've successfully added 5000+ geocaches to the unit, plus all other aspects of the caches as separate waypoints, including parking coordinates, stages of found multi caches, etc... as well as all my custom POIs and icons. No issues there. The issues come when you try to search through all this mess and the fancy graphics start to really slow things down. Honestly, did they really need to take a page out of the Microsoft playbook and give me a fancy rotating hourglass to tell me that it's searching? That must take up some valuable CPU cycles. IPB Image With 5000+ geocaches and a bunch of waypoints and POIs, it also takes a very long time to "boot". 22 seconds before it even starts to try and locate satellites. Sad.

QUOTE
I'm assuming it has Field Notes like the Oregon, so you can use the Field Notes Import and Log macro for GSAK.


Yes, it does. Exactly like the Oregon series. Like cron however, I have no real use for that feature. The odd note I could already add with the notes feature on my 60, or on my iPhone. I have no interest in writing all my logs in the field and uploading them later.



QUOTE
We're in a 62 thread, so I'm off topic a bit, but you never needed the fancy technology to do that. When I started using POIs, I also discovered this wonderful method:

- all caches in POIs
- when going for a cache, save it as waypoint and navigate to it
- if found, press the "Found" button (and optionally enter the time in the notes section)
- if DNF, just stop navigating
- repeat for the next cache

When coming home, after one outing or several days, just upload all waypoints and tracks to Mapsource. Now, all you have to do is to follow the track from cache to cache to log them in order. The found caches will have an open chest icon, while the DNFs will have the closed icon.
Then delete all waypoints when uploading new caches in POIs.




This is VERBATIM what I do with my 60CSx, but alas, I cannot do this with the 62. The geocaches stored in the 62 are completely separate entities from the other waypoints, as well as the POIs. They are not interchangeable. I can save a geocache as a waypoint, or a POI as a waypoint, but I cannot save a waypoint or a POI as a Geocache. "Searching" for a waypoint does not give you the "Found" option, so you have to modify it manually by adjusting the icon to an open chest. Also, even waypoints marked with open and closed chest icons are NOT treated like geocaches. Waypoints and geocaches are separate GPX files in the unit, each with seperate codes within the GPX file to uniquely identify them. As a programmer, this offers many cool options for adding waypoints to the unit, hence the nice GSAK macro someone has already (and continues to) develop (GarminExport), but I have no real interest in tinkering with that right now, I want to find caches!

SO, my choices are:

1) Ignore the geocaching category entirely and simple send everything to my unit as waypoints. In the field, instead of marking anything as "found", just change the icon to an open chest. Once home, I do what I used to do. Open Mapsource, suck in all my tracks and waypoints, and follow my tracks and log as I go. If no time to log, simply save my Mapsource file somewhere, and I never have to worry about remembering what I found when, I just open the file and log on my next opportunity, always in the order I found them (maybe not important to some, but important to me)

2) Use the geocaching feature. Using this feature allows me to see the cache pages, hints, even images, right on my device. Log the cache as "Found" or "Unfound" (not as simple as a find button any more, you have to navigate a menu to "log attempt" as "found", but it's in there, buried). Once I get home, I CANNOT import my track logs and found caches at the same time. I can download my track logs into MapSource, then Open the GPX file off the unit separately to get at my found caches.

****
Many of you are looking at my review of the unit as very pessimistic, which granted, it likely appears that way. This review however it NOT intended to be a review of the unit itself, but more of a comparison between the tried and true functionality of the 60CSx (or Cx) workhorse of the Geocaching world, and the supposed “new and improved” version which the 62 was touted to be.

All the bells and whistles on the unit are pretty and a bonus, but I don’t need those to find caches. I need ease of use (which they have take some of away), and SPEED.
Both of which are lacking IMO.

Oh, one more annoyance I noticed today. There is no date or clock anywhere on this !@#$% thing. To see the time, I have to add it as one of the data fields on the trip computer screen, and to see the date, I have to add the calendar page to the list of pages I have to scroll through. STUPID! Just give me the !@#$% date and time in a tiny bar like before, along with my battery indicator. Grrrrr.

Rant off.


****A bit more playing around, and sadly, a few more problems. Most notable, the POI searches are so slow they are basically unusable. I tried searching for the Baton Rouge restaurant on my 60CSx, it took less than 2 seconds to find all 3 locations. On my 62, it took SEVENTY TWO SECONDS to find the NEAREST Baton Rouge downtown. Both units contain the identical mapsets and POIs to ensure I had a common sample to test with. Yes, another bug reported to Garmin. The joys of early adoption. IPB Image

As for the geocaching aspect, it's really not that much different than my 60, except that my procedures have changed on how I add caches (I now use the Oregon/Colorado GSAK macro) and how I retrieve them off the unit at the end of the day when I'm done my finds and am ready to log. Of course, it's nice to have the cache pages, hints, etc.. on the unit with me, but I had those already anywhere with my iPhone.

I've got a bit more than a week before I can return the unit if I so desire, and so far I'm leaning towards doing so. If I were to not already own a 60, I'd likely keep this one, but my trusty 60 series workhorse may not have any fancy graphics, but it's fast and easier to use, so far.

*****

A bit more playing around, and sadly, a few more problems. Most notable, the POI searches are so slow they are basically unusable. I tried searching for the Baton Rouge restaurant on my 60CSx, it took less than 2 seconds to find all 3 locations. On my 62, it took SEVENTY TWO SECONDS to find the NEAREST Baton Rouge downtown. Both units contain the identical mapsets and POIs to ensure I had a common sample to test with. Yes, another bug reported to Garmin. The joys of early adoption. IPB Image

As for the geocaching aspect, it's really not that much different than my 60, except that my procedures have changed on how I add caches (I now use the Oregon/Colorado GSAK macro) and how I retrieve them off the unit at the end of the day when I'm done my finds and am ready to log. Of course, it's nice to have the cache pages, hints, etc.. on the unit with me, but I had those already anywhere with my iPhone.

I've got a bit more than a week before I can return the unit if I so desire, and so far I'm leaning towards doing so. If I were to not already own a 60, I'd likely keep this one, but my trusty 60 series workhorse may not have any fancy graphics, but it's fast and easier to use, so far.

****

Unless you don't own a GPSr yet, I'd wait before jumping in to any new unit without letting others review it first. I have not found any major issues with the 62 yet, but the learning curve is tough since I'm so accustomed to my 60CSx's controls that, as master Yoda said "I must unlearn what I have learned".

My biggest beef so far (other that the proximity unit issue I mentioned earlier), is the stupid rubber cover on the USB port. It's a bitch to put back into place. It always puzzles me why manufacturers change something that worked fine the way it was before, and innevetibly the change is worse. Grrr.

Like the Oregon software, it has Geocaches in a separate category than the waypoints, and they cannot be edited in the field. They must first be turned into Waypoints, then they can be manipulated, projected from, used in routes, etc.. Even if you create a waypoint with the treasure chest icon, it's not recognized as a geocache. Frankly, I find the geocaching mode somewhat useless, but let me play some more and maybe I'll get used to it.

I do like the fact that I can choose where the maps are stored, be it internal memory, SD card, or some on each. Manipulation of files is as simple as drag and drop now. Of course, the more you fill it up, the slower the boot time gets, but that is to be expected.

I have it loaded with City Navigator 2009, Topo Canada 4 (with relief maps - kinda-of cool), Topo USA 2008, NCC tails, Ontario Trails and Hiking Canada trails. Mapsource still will not allow more than a 4 GB map file to be transfered, however the unit will now accept larger card sizes (I have an 8 GB in there now).

I have yet to find a useful purpose for the Basecamp software, other than to provide an interface to download the (purchased) BirdsEye Imagery. Well, that stuff is utterly useless. Even with a subscription, they will not allow a file size download of more than 105 MB. All I was able to successfully download at one time is a 311 square kilometer area. Sounds like a lot? No, it's not. That's the AREA. I was barely able to get a decent chunk of downtown in my test. Hey, maybe I'm missing something, it's only been 2 days. More playing required.

My plan is to find a cache or two each day, using only the new unit (with my 60CSx on hand in case of emergency or frustration). Hopefully I can get a good feel for it's use in the field.

Still have yet to try auto-routing with it. I did do a quick "X" route and drop a waypoint in the centre to ensure that still worked as expected. Of course, it's not the same procedure, but I managed it. Old dog, new tricks and all that.

The high rez screen is pretty, but either my eyes are getting old, or the screen does not seem to appear as bright as my 60CSx, even with the backlight set to max.


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bluelamb03

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 09:22:55 »
I was able to borrow Remote Sensor's MAP62s for several caches this weekend. While by no means an exhaustive test of the unit I took it into the Gould Lake Conservation area and down the Cataraqui Trail on Saturday, then along Desert Lake Road for a "K2:..." series of caches.

Over all I was very happy with the unit and its performance. I had my MAP60Cx running parallel with the 62 and they matched one another very nicely in all parameters that I explored. The MAP62's user interface is not the same as the MAP60 but I found it very intuitive (as with most Garmin products) and I was able to adjust settings and change defaults with not trouble at all. The gpx file, with the cache description, logs etc, is handy to have along and I did refer to it several times. I was disappointed how often the cache's description, logs and 'hint' did nothing at all to help with the cache, but that's a different issue altogether.

The one thing about the MAP62 that I found noteworthy is how to navigate to a waypoint. With the MAP60 I prefer to select a geocache, then select 'MAP' and use the overview to select a route to the cache; the cache is the center of the map in this case. Many people choose instead the 'GoTo' function and wayfind to the cache with the map centered on their current position, with the pretty little line indicating the bearing to the cache. With the MAP62 I have to select the 'GoTo' function. I have no "MAP" choice. This activates the gpx file and grants me access to the cache description etc, but it's not my preferred method. Oh, well....

Oh, and I almost forgot! The 3 axis compass is da bomb!

Bottom line: the MAP62 is definitely on the wish list for Christmas! A few firmware updates and it will be a worthy successor to the venerable 60Cx.


Cheers,

Blue -
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 13:52:40 by bluelamb03 »
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GreyingJay

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 09:39:11 »
Thanks for the report, Lib!  Do you have any comments on screen brightness, readability in the sun, or battery life?  Kirok had some critical things to say along those lines and I'd be interested to know what you thought.


bluelamb03

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 12:10:22 »
I used the backlight all the time, that's the default Remote Sensor chose and I didn't mess (too much) with his settings. The screen is very readable in daylight. I had no trouble with it at all. I only used the unit for several hours so I won't comment on battery life except that the backlight would doubtless shorten it dramatically.....

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Stangman

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 22:21:22 »
FYI,
Lebaron has the best prices I've seen (in Canada) for the 62 series..

Look here: http://lebaron.ca/fall%202010%20pages/garmin_nuvi3700.pdf


kirok

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 22:41:24 »
Funny you should mention LeBaron, I was just in there today at lunch.  Someone was at the counter with a new 62st in their hands, looking to buy Topo maps.  I tried to help out a bit, as the clerk was not too familiar with the new models.

graciious

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2010, 00:14:52 »
Kirok, you may have an answer for this, or you may not...

  When I load my database, I have the option to clear the GPS before re-loading, but 3 caches remain no matter what I do. I even tried deleting all information on the GPS and restoring factory defaults.  Whenever I send the caches from GSAK to the device (62s) it always includes these three finds.

They are not in my "Default" database, and are not in my geocache_visits.txt

  Any thoughts?

kirok

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2010, 09:03:25 »
DId you check you SD card for any stray GPX files?

graciious

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 13:59:32 »
Kirok, Don't know if you have used the "Transfer" feature on the 62 yet,  When receiving a file from another device (in my case it was a Colorado) I received the Type of Cache (Trad), Diff/Terr, Name, GC Code and Coordinates.  However when sending a file from my 62s to the other device (in my case it was a Colorado) received everything including the above mentioned details, and the full cache description, hints, previous logs...

Not sure why that is, it wasn't super important in this case I was still thankful someone could transfer me the listing when I was without.

cron

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 15:52:06 »
Interesting... Maybe you have GPX 1.1 on your device, but the other had 1.0 only? Or the other one downloaded the LOC file, but yours come from the GPX file?

graciious

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 18:10:27 »
I wouldn't have a clue what version of software for the GPX would be, I didn't even realize there was a difference.  I will have to investigate this further.  I just need to find someone with a device that can preform transfers.  I'll repost when I have new results.

kirok

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 20:58:48 »
I have yet to attempt the "beaming" feature on the 62, but my first guess would be the same as cron's.  Did the person who beamed you the cache in question have all the info in his device, and it just didn't arrive in yours? 

graciious

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Re: MAP 62 and feedback so far
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2010, 04:39:00 »
I am pretty sure they had the description, logs and hint.  When I received nothing from them, I followed their GPS for instructions and simply used my received info for marking as found.